Do I have "Please Grope Me" Tattooed on my Forehead?
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I am seriously beginning to wonder what kind of message I am unintentionally giving out to men! It feels as if I have "Please Grope Me" tattooed on my forehead, yet I offer no actual encouragement as far as I am aware. Let me explain:
I suppose the worst of it began without an actual grope being involved, and was the time I was flashed by a man when I was at work, on my own, in a lonely one man petrol station in the middle of nowhere. Those of you who read the hub will know I handled this weird experience pretty well, and actually found it quite amusing, (not an easily shocked person as you may have gathered). I have always been fairly outrageous in personality, and it takes one hell of a lot to embarrass me, although many have tried. Actually, one of the nicest compliments I have ever had was from a male friend in the pub who included me in an all bloke conversation by saying, "Oh Cindy, she's okay, she's one of the lads". Don't get me wrong, I am ladylike and usually smartly dressed when I go out, but I do seem to fit right in with the lads, at least most of the time anyways, and am rarely offended by any topic of conversation, no matter how crude it may seem to most women.
Perhaps this is mistaken by some males to mean I am "up for anything", as the first time I was physically groped was about 2005, when I was in my regular pub (at the time) on a Friday night enjoying a few drinks with the usual locals and spending a bit of time with the man who was later to become my current Husband. I had briefly left the crowd I was sitting with and headed up to the bar to buy a drink. On my way to the bar I started chatting to another regular in the pub who had already enjoyed quite a few beers. Normally him and I got on okay, and we had played a number of games of pool against each other in the past, (I had actually won a fair few drinks off him this way previously). His name was Wayne, and although for the life of me I cannot remember what we were talking about, I do remember that suddenly, and without any warning, he grabbed hold of my right breast, (boob), whatever you choose to call it, and squeezed it rapidly three times as if it was some kind of vintage car horn or something, you know, like Noddy's car "Parp, Parp, Parp".
My reaction was purely reflex, as if my right arm had a completely independent brain from mine, as I immediately slapped him very hard around the face. There was a split second pause, and then the pub landlord, (who happened to be my Ex Control Freak Boyfriend), came rushing over to prevent the situation escalating any further.
Meanwhile, a few of our crowd had witnessed this event, and were actively encouraging my future (slightly inebriated) Husband to go and deck the bloke. I ended up having to convince him to stay out of it, and explained I had already dealt with the situation myself. Eventually Wayne called me over and apologised with a bizarre explanation that didn't make me feel any better at all. His explanation was that he had drunk so much he had no idea who he had been talking to, and I could have been "Boogie" or anyone. I would like to explain here that "Boogie", is a bloke, a little shorter than me, and slightly tubby, in fact, I couldn't look much less like "Boogie if I was Father Christmas. Anyway I accepted the apology, told Wayne if it ever happened again I would "lay him out" and prised my future Husband away from the discussion and went on to enjoy the rest of my evening.
This however, was not to be the last time I got groped!
Some time has needless to say gone by, and I guess I had relaxed and didn't expect things like this to happen to me any more, (after all, I am turning 40 next month). I no longer frequent the same pub, and the pub I do frequent is a trouble free zone, so why is it that last Saturday night, my Husband and I are enjoying a few drinks together, when a certain male acquaintance of ours comes into the bar, starts chatting and drinking some beers, and waits for his opportunity to grope me?
Now let me just describe this man to you. He is approximately in his late 60's, has had two knee replacements and is married to a very sweet lady who happens to work for the same company as my Husband. He has never made a pass at me before, and I can't really blame it on the alcohol as he had only drunk a few pints when the grope happened.
Richard went to the toilet, (and probably for a sneaky cigarette as well because he knows I have quit smoking). This man then began to relatively harmlessly (or so I thought), flirt via some slight innuendo type remarks. I initially let the comments roll over my head like they normally do, but that was until he commented on the fact I had "Buttons on the inside of my jumper". Realising he was referring to the fact I was not wearing a bra (and it was a little chilly), I tried to laugh it off saying that there were no buttons on the inside of my jumper:
"Yes there are" he says, "Here", and begins twiddling with my left nipple as if trying to tune in a radio station.
I was taken somewhat by surprise, and removed his hand immediately, whilst trying to put him down a bit by saying:
"Well at least I don't have a button on the inside of my trousers".
Fatal, big mistake, as he grabs my hand and says words to the effect of, "It's no button, here, feel it", and promptly begins pulling my hand down towards his groin.
I yanked my hand away, feeling pretty disgusted, but not wanting to make a scene. He exchanged a few more flirtatious remarks to me that I politely rejected, before he must have seen my Husband returning from the toilets, at which point he immediately and smoothly changed the subject.
Shortly after we left to go home, and on the way back I told my husband what had happened. He was pretty shocked to be honest, and so was I. It left me feeling almost "dirty" and "sullied" in some way, and yet I did nothing to encourage him.
It leaves me with one very awkward additional dilemma. This man is one half of the couple that have offered me use of their land for my second vegetable allotment, and I am now not so sure it is a great idea for me to take them up on the offer as his Wife will be at work most days, and so will my Husband. This chap only works as a handyman now if work is available, (as since his knee replacements he can't perform in a regular job). I am guessing you know where this is heading, I am not so sure he wouldn't be hovering around me when I was tending the allotment, and potentially being a total lecherous old man. Of course I could take the gamble and work on the principle that I will threaten to tell his Wife it it happened again, but what sort of dread would I feel each time I went to the new allotment knowing he might be there! It would also be awful to put in all the work and expense of ploughing and fencing in the allotment area, only to have to walk away from it if he became a total nuisance.
Any suggestions anyone, (and no more offers of further gropes please)???
I suppose if the worst came to the worst I can run faster than him LOL!
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Hi Tatjana,
It does become a nightmare when you have to give men the cold shoulder just to avoid them misinterpreting friendliness. I would have thought I was fairly safe with him, as he is married, knows I am married and is way too old for me you would think.... but apparently not!!! LOL
Those were both assaults. The latter being the worst of the two. I would keep your distance from that man by all means. If there are any future conversations with "innuendo" tell him to knock it off and exit. Too often men get away with these incidents because women are caught off guard and the actions are couched in "humor." Not funny at all actually.
I enjoy flirting as much as the next person, but there are boundaries. Both of these men knew you and took advantage. These are not friends. Their "free feels" left you questioning yourself. You're not the perpetrator, you're the victim.
A swift knee to the groin would be a "hilarious" response.
Cheers abcd1111, yes, I know where you are coming from on them both being assaults, and I guess I maybe should have very loudly said, "please stop groping my breast" to embarrass him. The first guy (several years ago) at least was very drunk, but the latter guy had not drunk that much, and is married, which to me makes it worse. It would have been difficult to knee him in the groin as we were both sitting on bar stools, but I suppose I could have punched him in the groin instead!
I think you handled it beautifully with the swift slap. He got the message and was embarrassed enough to come up with a lame excuse.
The married acquaintance is an ass. I don't think I would have done any differently than you under the circumstances, but the question as to whether you should share any garden space with him is what I was responding to. I vote NO!
Hmmm, I think I am beginning to lean towards that direction myself abcd1111, but struggling to find the best way to tell them without mentioning the gory details of how I reached the decision. It is awkward for me, as I don't really want to land him in it with his Wife, (although he deserves it), plus I can't face all the lame apologies if I speak to him alone. Tricky one!!
Cindy: If you opt to share garden space with him, the message you are giving him is that "its okay to continue be disrespectful to you" as he will have more opportunities when you find yourself alone with him. You don't need this individual in your space. He pretty much created the situation by his behavior, so he doesn't require long explanations from you, he knows better.
I know Violet, but it is annoying as I really wanted that allotment, and the agreement had been made weeks ago. His wife might also find it a little odd as I went round to their house for a visit and told both of them I definitely wanted the allotment after seeing the available land. I suppose I was kind of hoping in the cold light of day he wouldn't have the courage to repeat such an act, and that one or two beers were all it took for him to lose his "sensible" head on this occasion.
Well, I wouldn't want his eyes on me, no matter where he stood, so, I hope you don't share the space.
Great hub, though...
I may be treading on thin ice as a man but sorry you had to go through this because of weirdo's.
Keep swinging and maybe start kicking as well.
Blessings
Hmm, well, I'd tell them both, together and when your husband is available, that you are reconsidering taking the allotment. If you're asked why, simply vaguely allude to concerns over a "Lecherous old man" and let them use their imaginations.
I think I must have a sign around my neck that says "Please grope me" too, just a couple of weeks ago I went to a sandwhich shop by myself in the early hours of the morning to pick up a quick meal for myself and Amy, and while filling the drink at the soft drink machine, the guy that made our sandwhiches walked up and said he'd give me a second, free drink if he could touch my breasts...and without waiting for a response, he slipped his hand in my jacket and took a squeeze. Needless to say we are never going there again, which is a pain since it's the only 24 hour sandwhich shop in town and Amy works nights. *sighs*
Seems to me booze has been the problem. Why I gave it up, to all intenets and purposes, 20 years ago. We have such a pub culture whereas so many countries seem to be able to have fun in a coffee cafe environment. I did all those stupid things once. It's a matter, in the end, of respecting others and yourself. Bob
I know some don't need any encouragement but if you put out a message like that, well you are asking for it.
You've a husband Cindy. From what you tell us he's a nice sensible bloke who doesn't take shit so treat him like an adult, tell him the problem and that you don't want to loose the allotment but that you need respect, and let him sort it out. He shouldn't have to beat up a pensioner to resolve the situation. Men aren't all thugs or idiots so credit him with the ability to fix it wisely. (And if you can't do that your' marriage is probably screwed so get a divorce.)
Cheers,
Peter.
Sorry to hear about that, Misty - I can imagine that it is all very distressing. Flirting is all well and good, but making physical contact is not. I have three sisters and they all have to put up with idiots - sadly, I think that most women have a 'grope me' sign as far as some fools are concerned.
I like TOF's plan - your husband could have a quite word with the guy. It would be a shame to shelve your plans because of it.
Hi Lorlie, thanks for commenting. Yep, I am now distinctly uncomfortable with even sharing the same air space as him.
Hi Quill, thankks for the great advice :)
Hi Suiiki, I think Richard and I have already made a decision on the allotment now, and we are going to canvel plans for me to take it on and find a way to extend my existing allotment more still. I don't want to hurt his Wife or wreck their marriage by telling her if I can avoid it. Sorry to hear about your sandwich shop, jeez, what can he of been thinking!!
Hi Bob, it could be the booze, but he hadn't really had very much booze in the latter case, only two or three pints, and he is quite a tall bloke, so plenty of mass to cope with a few pints. I can certainly see an argument for giving up booze though if that is all it takes. Cheers for commenting :)
Hi Hello Hello, probably being a bit dense here, but what message was I putting out that means I was "asking for it"??? If you mean not wearing a bra, well under a jumper and being quite small up top, I don't really feel I needed one, and it certainly doesn't mean it is an invitation to cop a feel. I don't grab a blokes nipples if he is wearing a shirt where they are noticeable through the fabric, nor would I grab a guys groin if he was wearing speedos. Don't get what message I was "putting out" please explain!!
Hi Peter, I told Richard about it at the time, and we have discussed it since. This is how we have come to the decision that we will cancel plans for me to take over the land at this couple's place and will instead find a way to widen and lengthen my existing allotment. Richard is going to simply tell the Wife at work that we have had a change of plan and are going to be unable to take on the land after all. Hopefully this will be an end to the matter :)
Hi Sufi,
Yes, there are a lot of idiots out there who unfortunately seem to think any female is "fair game". Anywasy, as I explained in my comment above, I think we have a solution to the problem now.
Thanks for visiting my hub and commenting as always.
You DID handle it well, agreed upon there. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO GROPE A WOMAN!! I've had it happen to me AT WORK! MORE THAN ONCE! and NOTHING TICKS ME OFF WORSE! I go on the freaking rampage and the man is never the same again. I mean it. People don't know who they're messing with, because if someone touches me inappropriately, they just gave up any right they had for me to be nice.
Thanks Paradise, I think I need the reassurance from others that it wasn't my fault, and as I said to "Hello Hello" above, I don't always feel the need to wear a bra as I am quite small busted and they stay up on their own!! In any case, what did people do before Bras were invented! Perhaps she was speaking a little "tongue in cheek" when she said I was "asking for it".
Nice to know you won't put up with any gropes either :)
Rest assured you did not "ask for it." You could be sitting there buck naked and he doesn't have the right to touch you inappropriately or worse, force you to touch him. He's the one who was out of line. Never question yourself about that.
Thanks abcd1111, that does make me feel better. I have been going out for years frequently without a bra on, (although not always), and this is a problem I have only encountered twice, (once if you want to precisely talk about nipple twiddling). In any case, what if I was wearing a strapless dress, I would not have a bra I could wear then, but wouldn't expect to get groped! (I don't have any strapless bras).
Cheers for the reassurance :)
I don't think us guys can help it, I know I've always got sex on the brain whether it's warranted or not. However, there no excuse for trespassing across someone's body.
Thanks for commenting RKHenry, well at least you don't grope women and hopefully as a married man (assuming you are) you wouldn't in any case :)
no excuse for violating a person's body. the colorful words of a vintage car horn was a good laugh but still there are other decent ways to approach a woman who you may have a secret interest in going to the next level.
Hi Ocbill, glad the comparison to the car horn gave you a laugh :) Yes, there really is no excuse, and what is worse is to be having a conversation with my Husband and I one minute, and then the moment the Hubby is out of the way for two minutes think it is okay to grope his Wife!! How does that work???
Boobs, Nipples and Ass's were invented by God for one reason...for ME to enjoy squeezing!
Its an extremely sad society we live in when women seem to think they own their bodies as if it was some sort of personal property or something. Then, they have the audacity to feign anger when men, who are simple following their own God-given instincts, reach out and caress the inviting mounds of a womanly body. All you ladies complain and cry "assault" yet secretly you love it...you crave to be objectified...and if you walked through a bar without being groped you'd start to feel fat and ugly. What's worse?
pjk_artist...If this is an attempt at humor, try again.
It started as an attempt at humour...but then I started thinking...this is BS!
This is all societal conditioning!
Please tell me how a guy grabbing your ass/boob hurts you?
I've also seen more than one woman scream "He grabbed me" when all the poor guy did was brush against her as he walked past her. (No it wasn't me)
"OMG! He grabbed me! I was so scared!" PULEEEZ!
Wow. Are you saying a woman's right to be in charge of who touches her is all societal conditioning? I'll bet you would not welcome uninvited groping in prison, which is hopefully where you will end up if you act upon your "instincts." I won't discuss this further because it would be pointless.
>prison, which is hopefully where you will end up if you >act upon your "instincts."
Yes. Society does like to make acting on instincts illegal doesn't it? Especially anything to do with sex.
>I won't d>Wow. Are you saying a woman's right to be in charge of who >touches her is all societal conditioning?
Absolutely! If we were raised in a "groping society" you'd have no problem.
>I'll bet you would not welcome uninvited groping in iscuss this further because it would be pointless.
Or because you know I'm right!
>Wow. Are you saying a woman's right to be in charge of who >touches her is all societal conditioning?
Absolutely! If we were raised in a "groping society" you'd have no problem being touched.
>I'll bet you would not welcome uninvited groping in prison, which >is hopefully where you will end up if you act upon your "instincts."
Yes. Society does love to make acting on instincts illegal doesn't it? Especially anything to do with sex.
>I won't discuss this further because it would be pointless.
Or because you know I'm right!
I have to laugh at this story since I'm the 3rd party reading it.
however, I have been around situations like that, where another guy is being completely obnoxious and it's irritating as hell and when it's someone I hang around with, it's especially annoying because it tarnishes my reputation since I'm friends with the person.
As far as you are concerned, I'm not claiming I know, but it could be the way your dressed. A lot of women dress in a way that could bring on that attention. But because of how these people never did anything before, I would say it is on their side and due to your personality, they think you're a safe bet. Those guys are older... and especially when married, they may be looking for that excitement.
Anyway, well written story! Add one to your fan list!
Gosh PJK,
I hope this isn't how you really think, "that all women want to be groped" and "if we walked through a bar without being groped we'd start to feel fat and ugly".
It is one thing being wolf whistled in the street, (that is kind of a compliment), but to be physically groped is not normal or acceptable at all. I have walked through many bars in my life and NOT been groped, nor did I want to be, and nor did it make me feel fat or ugly not to be, (actually I am very slim). Sure I have seen blokes give me a second look, or show an interest in my appearance, even chat me up, but not physically grope me (apart from the occasions within this hub), which is not amusing, flattering or enjoyable, especially from a lecherous old man.
No it doesn't "hurt", but it is embarrassing and shows a complete lack of respect for the women as anything other than a sexual object.
I have never been one to scream "sexual harrassment" at the tiniest brushing past by a man or by a dirty joke etc, (far from it), Golly, I worked as a bus driver in London for nearly 2 years in a garage with over 300 male drivers to about 12 female ones, I couldn't AFFORD to be hypersensitive. Might I also add I was never groped in all that time working with that many men.
I cannot believe even most men would be pleased if in public a woman simply walked up to them and grabbed their groin, (even moreso if they were married too).
Hi JaShinYa, great to have you as a new fan and thanks for commenting.
This guy wasn't even what I would describe as "a friend" merely an acquaintance. I have only ever met him about three times, and with the exception of the last time he was always with his Wife. Fortunately no-one else saw what he did, otherwise he would have been in dire danger of someone telling his wife, (Guernsey is very small).
I do know where you are coming from about the way women dress sometimes being a bit provocative, but honestly, I was wearing old jeans, trainers, a very plain frumpy roll neck jumper/pullover and zero makeup. My hair was a mess and to be honest I would have been amazed if anyone had given me a second glance, never mind a grope LOL.
The first guy who ever groped me was probably actually about 8 - 10 years younger than me, and in his twenties when I was in my mid thirties. The most recent guy is a pensioner batting way out of his league and behaving like some kind of sleazy old man. Like I said before, I have only met this guy a few times, and previously he was always with his Wife, so he has never had the opportunity to grope me before, and for all I know I may not be the first woman he has done this to.
It is all fine and good to pay a lady a compliment on her appearance,wolf whistle her etc, but groping her is a step too far, (even moreso if you know she is married and you are too).
I am sure you get my drift :)
I see where you're coming from. I've been in your husband's position with my girlfriend. I've been at the movies with her and she goes out for snacks or something, comes back in and after the movie is over, she tells me that she went out for snacks and some perverted 60 year old is rubbing her back and asking if she's single. Mind you I'm 21 and she's 19 so neither of us are anywhere int hat range for him.
It's sad that a lot of guys (and some women) are like that, but that's what a bottle of mace is for. ;)
LOL, I think over here we would get arrested for carrying mace, although I guess a short sharp knee might be the best option if aimed correctly :)
Surely we should be able to go to places of public enjoyment/entertainment and enjoy/entertain ourselves without carrying mace. There ARE societal boundaries of appropriate behavior and touch and when people cross them without permission, it's a problem.
I've been in enough bars to recognize both incidents for what they were. Lecherous attempts by pathetic males to touch something (yes, doing this objectifies the woman) off limits.
Cindy, your reflexes were spot-on in the first scenario. Too bad you didn't react the same way with the older perv.
And yes, he's not done yet. Doesn't matter how many or few pints he'd had (or that you'd seen him have -- who knows what he drank before he came into the pub!), he's definitely on the prowl.
Good decision not to put yourself anywhere near him in future. He would absolutely try it again out in the veggie patch. *Shudder*
What some of the "men"a above have suggested may be a feeble attempt at humor. Very feeble. I'm glad you handled this yourself rather than handing it over to Richard. He can support you, but it's YOUR issue and YOU are fully capable of defending yourself.
Best case scenario is you get a rep for decking men who try to get fresh with you!!!
LOL, thanks MM, great advice as per usual. I wish I had decked him now, I guess I simply hadn't had enough bevvies myself to feel so confident as to do that. You make a good point, I don't know how many drinks he might have had before he came out to the pub, but he would have to have drunk them at home as there aren't any other pubs nearby. I have to say he didn't seem drunk, but some people cover it well.
Anyway, I have no intention of taking the allotment now, and feel relieved the decision is made. :)
Thanks as always for your input Susan.
I think the fact is that some guys have less self control than others, and some are purposefully brash and use "nature" and "instincts" to defend anti-social behavoir. Frankly, I think you handled it well, but if your old man beat the shit out of that guy, I wouldn't be calling it an over reaction either.
Being in a place with booze and dressing provocative add to the probability of attracting dipshits, but the bottom line is, only a guy with issues would do something like that.
Bummer you had to go through that.
No. I don't really feel like that. I did feel like playing the devils advocate earlier today though.
Have you considered that some of these dipshits with issues are just lonely guys who are to scared to approach/meet a beautiful woman (such as your self) so they get drunk and cop a few feels to think about at home later while they spank the monkey?
I'll bet there are lots of guys who act one way sometimes and another way others, and then, when the less odious of the two personalities is manifest, they vomit platitudes and wax sympathy for those who've suffered the very outrages said hypocrite did perpetrate and advocate.
Speaking as a sixty something year old I think the man is a dickhead. I also think he thought he had opened the door by saying you had buttons in your shirt. He then interpreted your friendly response as an invite. BUT under no circumstances should he have touched you. That was way out of bounds. The banter could have continued but you should been able to terminate the subject. NO TOUCHING required!
I think you should drop him verbally and skilfully once he and the wife are in your company.
Something along the lines that you decided not to use the allotment 'cause "dickhead" (maybe use his name) persuaded you that button mushrooms may be an entirely unsuitable crop foir that particular allotment!.
He will pretty much leave you alone after that. Good hub my lovely friend.
Just because a couple of backwards guys who have relationship problems post a couple of stupid comments is no reason to trouble yourself. That's about the same percentage of guys who are groping asses. PJL wrote a hub titled "How to Seduce Children Online Without Getting Caught." I think that says it all.
I think you did the right thing, although I am more with MM on should have whacked the second guy too. True, it can be frustrating for men to feel such desire that can't be requited, but too bad for us, doesn't give us the right to take anything, and anybody who would say otherwise has a suitcase full of psychological problems and relationship and intimacy issues. I can remember feeling like that...when I was fourteen, and still I didn't grope anyone. You should ask first. LOL.
Well as a man I must somewhat embarrased admit that I've had MY butt pinched in four different night clubs (normal night clubs, no strip club or whatever you may think it was). I didn't slap the girls who did it...but their pinching did not make me happy. Stay away from my arse! Good hub!
As I am reading, my thoughts are "don't do business with the pervert!!" but it looks like my fellow hubbers have said it all... thanks for sharing your experiences, it's a good idea to think ahead how to handle that situation, and I am going to talk to my teen daughter about this.
Hi Shades, great to see you here and thanks for commenting and giving your usual excellent feedback. I think you could have a point when you said "when the less odious of the two personalities is manifest, they vomit platitudes and wax sympathy for those who've suffered the very outrages said hypocrite did perpetrate and advocate"
It makes me wonder how he would have reacted if I had told him in conversation of my first experience of being groped. Quite possibly he would have feigned sympathy when for all I know he has done this before.
Hi PJK, well I am glad you don't really feel like that, but this particular "Dipshit" is married so shouldn't be battling with how to approach/meet women anyway, especially ones that are themselves married!
Hi Sixtyorso, I know you are always guaranteed to be a true gentleman on every occasion. Richard is going to sort it out for me so I don't have to share the same airspace as this "dickhead". I believe he intends to speak to the Wife and say I no longer wish to take on the allotment as we have found a way to extend our existing one and it is easier to have all the growing in the same place. Mind you I like your idea about the button mushrooms comment LOL :)
Hi Christoph, thanks for popping in and commenting, it is always lovely to have a visit from you on one of my hubs :)
I kind of wish I had whacked him too now, but at the time the pub was really quiet and I think I was actually completely shocked by his behaviour as I had never got the impression he was like that before. It left me feeling distinctly uncomfrtable with a burning desire just to go home.
Did PJK really write a hub on how to seduce children online without getting caught, that is awful, was it taken down by Hubpages??
Hi Fresh_Flower, thanks for commenting here. It is good to hear a man's reaction to the same thing being done to them, although I do feel a pinch on the bum is less offensive than a groped groin or breast, and I would not be as upset if a bloke simply pinched my bum, although it would bother me if he was married, or he knew I was. Any innapropriate contact is assault though, and you have just as much right to feel indignant about it as a woman would if the role was reversed.
Hi Elisabeth, great to see you here and thanks for your input. I think it is an excellent idea for you to talk to your daughter about this so that she knows exactly how to react if it happens to her. It is always best to have a plan in advance, although I hope she never needs to use it :)
Just to let you know, PJK's article about seducing children online was not what it sounded like, and was intended to shock potential paedophiles into seeking help, or scare the hell out of them in any case.
Shadesbreath says:
" they vomit platitudes and wax sympathy for those who've suffered the very outrages said hypocrite did perpetrate and advocate."
I loved this sentence so much I just had to re-quote it!
>mistyhorizon2003 says:
>Just to let you know, PJK's article about seducing children online >was not what it sounded like, and was intended to shock potential >pedophiles into seeking help, or scare the hell out of them in any >case.
Yes. I've been thinking of taking it down anyways...but I think I'll leave it for the "shock-effect"...I'm kinda into the shock effect...have you noticed?
Maybe I'll create a new hub "How to Grope Women in Bars without getting kicked slapped or beat up."
LOL PJK, I had noticed you love to shock and be contraversial yes :)
Shades is full of excellent quotes like that one PJK, you should join his fan club, his work is brilliant, and when he isn't doing his serious hubs his other hubs are hysterically funny.
Sorry to come in late. I was groped by a married man and I was married too. He would come over to our house while we had company and grope me all over. It was embarrassing to say the least and his wife and my husband were in the same room. I finally got the best of him. Every time he groped me I yelled out why are you doing such and such or something to that effect. It was my desire to get the attention of his wife nd my husband and put it all on him--as in make him feel silly. It worked.
Have you ever had sexual inuendo's from a guy that proclaims to everyone that he is Gay 100%? I have and I avoid him like the plague. He's a liar through and through and he isn't Gay. Sick, Sick, Sick!
Yes. I knew that. But then, it wouldn't have had the same "shock effect" for me to list the title here, now would it? Ha!
I'd leave it published. It's a good idea.
Oh my God, LG, that is so weird, a man saying he is gay and then making sexual innuendos to you. Makes you wonder why on earth he wants people to think he is gay, or is it just you he told this to make you feel "safe" around him?
I love the way you handled the first instance, I will try that if ever he does that to me in his Wife's presence in the pub, (although as you probably realise by now, I am not now taking the allotment on his land thankfully)
Nice one Christoph, I am sure I was not the only one initially "reeled in" by your trickery (and PJK's) :):) :)
Yeah so I don't have neighbors that can see my house except he can see ours because he is across the street. So I go out in my nightshirt--mind you that you can't see through them and they are down to my knees. Well he comes up and says something to my husband like he thought I wore it for his viewing. OMG and to make it worse he told me to apologize to my husband--never did he apologize to me. Another instance was when we were over his house and I was facing my husband while he was sitting on his front steps. Well he covered my ears so that he thought that I couldn't hear it, but I did and I don't know that I want to say what he said to my husband of what he wanted to do to me. I was disgusted and my facial expressions showed it to my husband and he said that I heard what he said. This man is NOT Gay! No I do not go outside when he is home and my curtains in my bedroom that face his house are closed.
I get these things all the time, just like you. I also wonder if I have that sign on my forehead. I purposefully have not wear clothing that make me look sexy and I am not skinny because of something that happened a long time ago, BUT that doesn't seem to be the cause of such men's behavior.
Definitely very weird and creepy LG, I hope he moves house for your sake.
Its a shame thing what the others irritating people groping, i hate this type of behavior
I'm a dude and have been unexpectantly groped. It was intrusive.
Thanks for your feedback Bucan, I much appreciate it.
Hi Drew, yes, it is intrusive for either sex. In much the same way people like their personal space, which is why in waiting rooms they will seldom sit right next to another person, but will leave at least one empty seat between them. We all like that space to ourselves. Thanks for commenting.
That space seems to be about 3 feet. It's there and it may be associated to our Auric Field. Everyone has it.
I'm tall dark and handsome,a very good looking guy (or so I've been told)let's put the shoe on the other foot,One night I was out on the town having a good time chilling with the fellas,I was at the bar getting a round of drinks when this chick walked up behind me and grabbed my ass!!!I turned around and she was just standing there looking at me.she said"I've been trying to get your attention all night!"I was shocked,flabbergasted,and it made me feel like I was HUGH HEFNER,I loved every minute of it!!!.
Hi LG, I like that explanation, thanks for posting it here.
You are welcome.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for commenting, but I have to say that being out with a group of young guys when this happens would be an ego boost for most men, although I doubt it would be if the woman groping was 60+ years old, in which case I suspect it would have caused the mickey to be taken out of you big time!
Also, a grope of the arse is not really as intrusive as twiddling a woman's nipple, or a groin grope, so not in the same league don't you agree???
I don't agree. There are "private spaces" and "public spaces" on our social bodies. A shoulder tap is fine. Ass, boobs, crotch are off limits for women unless invited. It is different for guys in a way, as men are expected to be the agressors, they need to chill and not over do it. Women, given the right signals, can probably be a bit more daring in that regard. But, like your example, Misty, if it was some hideous skag trying to bust a move on my booty, I'd be all, "WTF?" I would get over it though, be mostly funny. Dude gropes my wife, ugh, I sure hope I can kick his ass because I'm damn sure gonna try.
I agree with Sufi, please have your husband talk to that guy. If the older guy has any sense of decency, he'll back off. Until then, please avoid any situation when you will be alone with him.
Oh and if that happened to me, a slap will be the least I will do :). I was smiling when I read how you slapped the first guy. He deserved more actually.
Hi Shades, Thanks for popping back in and commenting. You make great points of course, and I don't blame you for wanting to "kick ass" if some guy did it to your Wife.
I guess the point I was trying to get across is that an ass isn't as bad as a boob or crotch grope, and that no doubt in terms of an assault the court / Judge would take it far more seriously if it was a boob or a crotch rather than a pinch on the bum say. This doesn't make it right of course, and I also agree that women would get away with more in this regard than a man doing it to a woman would.
I accidentally did it to a bloke once because in a crowded bar I thought from behind he was my boyfriend. I went up and gave him an almighty smack on the arse, and then he turned round and I realised it wasn't my boyfriend at all. I was too embarrassed even to apologise, so just pretended it hadn't happened and strolled off calmly to my seat without even making eye contact with him. He must have thought I was stark staring mad. LOL.
Hi emievil, I hope it won't now be necessary for my Hubby to speak to the guy about what happened, as Hubby has already told the guy I am no longer taking on the allotment after all. As that was the first time he had ever groped me, hopefully it will also be the last, but if it did happen again I am sure Hubby would be wanting more than just a word!! I shall certainly avoid being alone with the guy, although technically I wasn't alone with him last time as there were other people sitting in the bar also, just not in the right line of sight to see it happen.
A slap at the very least will be on the cards if he ever trie this again, one from me, and then no doubt one from my Husband too :)
Hi Sis
Well I might be plain 'bloody minded' but I still think you should have said something -if only indirectly- to his wife. Perhaps along the lines of "I'm sorry but I won't be taking you up on the alottment after all" Then when she asks "Why?" Say enigmatically "I think you should ask your husband that"... I'd like to bet she knows what he's like already and personally I think that's why she always comes with him. Too bad that happened as soon as her back (and Richards) were turned. What does that tell you?
Good morning people! Sorry that I'm late to this particular party but I just flew in from Aruba late last night and only read my email this morning.
Ahhh...I've missed my own coffee...*slurp*...
Okay, so my opinion on this and totally ignoring some of the piggish comments made by others here to incite the masses I'll give my two cents.
First off...your body is yours and any touch whether it is a handshake, a hug, a kiss or a grope should be by permission. This goes for both men and women and I've seen women do some pretty nasty things to men too...they just don't complain as much (the men, that is).
Did you do anything to invite such a response..of course not. I'm small chested too and since mine stay up on their own as well (I loved that comment btw) I often go without a bra too...much to my husband's chagrin. To him they are sexual objects...to me they are two lumps of fat attached to the front of my body that because of a man's sexual preoccupation I'm supposed to keep covered and god forbid they should react to cold. When you really think about it, it's rather silly.
But that's just my own personal take on the female breast and I realize that other women are more sensitive about them than I am...so I will tell you what I have done in order to discourage any unwanted touching of my person.
In your first scenario...slapping the pig silly was a proper response. I had an issue once where a rather over-friendly man kept placing his hand high up on my thigh and I removed it...twice. I told him if I had to do it a third time I would show him the physical meaning of the word "no". He thought it was rather cute...and once again slid his meaty hand up my leg into the "no-no" zone. I broke his nose. I didn't intend to break his nose...but sometimes I don't know my own strength and my fist just landed in such a position as to break it.
The trick is to always keep your cool. These men are looking for a reaction...yes, even shock. When the old geezer said something about your buttons and the fact that you must have been cold...the proper response would have been to look pointedly at his crotch and say, "I can see we both are having an issue with the cold."
If that had not discouraged him and he had in fact made free with his hands...I would have laughed, bought him a drink and then proceeded to pour it slowly with a smile on my face into his crotch. Let him explain that to whomever he liked...
I would have to disagree with whomever suggested a like response would have been appropriate. Groping a man's crotch would be a return of the unwanted favor to somebody like this. If you value your woman parts as much as I do mine...then find something of equal value to maul. For example...this one creepy little guy did that to me and I drew back...looked him in the eye with an equally creepy smile and told him that since he had made free with something of considerable value it was only fair that I was given the same opportunity. His smile widened and he sat back upon his bar stool spreading his legs and said, "well go for it!" Unfortunately for him...I happened to know what a vain strutting little peacock he was and how much he loved that gold chain he wore around his neck. Before he could intercept...I reached out with my hands, grabbed it, twisted and mangled it into oblivion.
Luckily several friends were in the immediate area and they managed to insert themselves between us when he leapt from his bar stool to retaliate...but I'm pretty sure I could have handled him despite laughing so hard I nearly peed my pants. :)
The trick is to always stay cool...and remember that a shocked response is what they want...you'll be able to handle men like this in the future.
Now...whether or not you should do some gardening on his property. Hmm. That's a tough one. I can understand how even though HE assaulted YOU...you wouldn't want to make trouble for him with his wife. In the end it could rebound and cause YOU problems with HER after all. So this is what I would do....
If you really really really want to plant a garden on the property do so. Label each area legibly..."Peas, carrots, beans, tomatoes, bodies of men that touched my mushrooms." He'll get the message. And if that doesn't work...have your husband talk to him man to man.
Silence is implied consent...you don't want him thinking he got away with it.
OMG That is the most funniest thing i ever read!!
And Probably the most bizzare encounter ever!
Spryte, these are some very good moves on your part and ours too I should say. Wow!
Hi Hayley (Sis), Actually his Wife wasn't with him that night, but as you know now, I am not taking the allotment there and Richard has told them it is because I am due this elbow operation plus I have enough on my plate with my original allotment as it is. Of course if anything like that happens again with him I shall no doubt slap him hard around the face as I did in the first instance of being groped, (and tell his Wife).
Hi Spryte, hope you had a lovely holiday and great to see you back again.
Thanks for the great comment, I nearly wet myself laughing when you said you broke the guys nose. Classic. I love your suggestion about my saying "I can see we are both having issues with the cold", but he didn't actually mention the fact I was "cold", so I would have to adjust the comment slightly to say something like "Well it is a little chilly, I can see it is effecting you too". My fear then would be he might still have said "No I'm not... here feel for yourself", and tried to drag my hand down to his crotch anyway.
Liked the pouring the drink over him idea too, but there were no bar staff behind the bar at the time, they were all chilling out in chairs in the sitting area before closing time so it would have meant calling one of them over especially, by which time Richard would have been back etc etc.
You were certainly brave to crush that guy's necklace, but at least you had friends there to back you up too. Impressive all the same and no more than he deserved.
Also loved the idea of labelling the plant rows with "bodies of men who touched my mushrooms", although it might have taken a bit of explaining if the Wife had read it and asked me what it meant LOL. In any case I am not taking the allotment there now, too much hassle and Richard was far from comfortable with the idea once he knew what had happened. We have instead found a way to virtually double the size of my current allotment so I shouldn't be any worse off than I would have been had I taken on this couple's land.
Oh, and don't worry about the "silence" thing, as if I see him in the pub and he tries anything like this again I shall be anything but silent!!
Thanks again for the fabulous comment and brilliant tips and anecdotes. :D
Hi Amna, thanks for commenting, glad it gave you a giggle. Yes it was truly a very bizzare encounter :)
Hi LG, cheers for popping in and commenting. Spryte certainly has some good moves by all accounts, what a woman, she is an inspiration!!
:) Had a lovely vacation...thank you for asking! In the middle of unpacking and sorting laundry and restoring the house to order. Still it's good to be home. Although I do miss waking up to the beautiful blue-green of the Caribbean. *sigh*
I would miss it too, especially bearing in mind we have had force 8 - 9 gales here for the past week or so, driving rain and generally miserably cold. Mind you, I know what you mean about it also being nice to get home, I felt the same at the end of my February Cruise.
sup misty,women twist nipples too,grab crotches,and can get aggessive when it comes to flirting,but you are right it is different when you are the man and the woman is the aggressor,then when you are a woman and the man is the aggressor,when a pretty lady gets aggressive with a guy that can raise his self esteem,but when a man gets aggressive with a woman it can lower their self esteem,so yes its a big difference.
sup misty,women twist nipples too,grab crotches,and can get aggessive when it comes to flirting,but you are right it is different when you are the man and the woman is the aggressor,then when you are a woman and the man is the aggressor,when a pretty lady gets aggressive with a guy that can raise his self esteem,but when a man gets aggressive with a woman it can lower their self esteem,so yes its a big difference.
Thanks for commenting Bill Yon, good feedback :)
Not surprisingly this hub generated so much discussion. The stories made me ashamed on behalf of my gender. Naturally the dry veggie allotment cannot play a factor in the punitive measures that need to be taken against the "button" finder. His actions really made me feel shocked and little ill.
Hi Jess, thankfully not all men are like that one, and it is nice to know you are not one of the bad guys either :)
Sounds like a potentially nasty situation that would best be solved with some controlled force/violence.
It would probably warrant at least a beating if not a kneecapping (ironic, or what)here in sunny Belfast , which is a fairly mild penalty for what really amounts to a quite serious sexual assault. Any repeat performances would be treated much more seriously for the perv.
You might be best to get your husband to just give him a good beating to set the boundaries & if the pervy groper were ever to make a repeat performance then he should really get whacked-out.
Good luck!
Thanks for the advice Iskra. Thankfully I haven't experienced any further problems with him since so the beating might be a little extreme right now.
I have known a few other women for whom this phenomenon was common. One of them called it her "beacon" because she seemed to draw all kinds of pervs, both male and female. The cause was a complex combination of the spiritual, psychological and physical. I don't know if I agree with her ultimate solution, because I think it did her more harm than good, but it did turn the "beacon" off.
Hi BD, great to see you here, (it's been a while) :). It is strange how this seems to happen to certain people more than others. It would be interesting to know if this is a combination of the "spiritual, psychological and physical". It sounds like it could be possible. I am curious as to what she did about it though!!
I'll send you a private message, as I don't want to expose her choices to "public scrutiny".
Thanks BD. Much appreciate it, although I will no doubt simply continue to put my own experiences down to fate and not do much about changing the situation (short of the odd well aimed slap LOL).
If the slap works, use the slap!
Hope I won't need to again BD, but somehow I doubt it. Still haven't had your private email by the way, but don't know if you have sent it yet.
I sent it via Facebook about a half hour ago. Hope not too!
Ahhh, that explains it. I was checking my Hubpages email address, not Facebook. Thanks BD :)
Ah ... sorry about that!
Ugh! The behavior of these two men was absolutely disgusting, and yes, it was assault. I smiled when I read about you slapping the first fool. That was awesome!
I don't think it has anything to do with any signals you are sending out. Some men have this sense of entitlement when it comes to women's bodies. Being female and attractive is enough motivation for these lowlife scumbags. My strategy has always been to humiliate them. I was groped once on a public street. As soon as I felt his icky hands up my skirt groping my ass, I starting yelling as loud as I could. He ran away really fast, believe me!
Thanks for the comment Margaret, it was great. I know my half sister once got stuck on a crowded tube train and whilst 'pressed' up against other passengers (standing up) she felt a man sliding up her skirt and trying to put his hands where she would rather he had not! She managed to grab hold of one of his fingers and began to bend it farther and farther back, whilst looking to see whose face registered pain first..... she eventually managed to break his finger, and knew exactly which passenger it was, but he had to keep quiet to avoid the behaviour he had exhibited becoming obvious to the whole carriage!
I must apologize for the lack of gentlemen in the world who make the rest of us look really bad. But I don't think you will be having that particualr problem again. LOL Great hub, humorous,to the point, and a good bit of advice to men or women - self defense is always the best way to insure your safety and to handle a jerk like that. You make me proud my daughter would handle herself much like you describe. Keep on Hubbing. Blake4d
My rule is this "You Grope, I slam dunk your balls!" I had a guy grope me once and I kicked him so hard in the balls I doubt his nuts are still working...
Nice hub hun xx
LOL, thanks blake, a lovely comment and I hope your daughter reacts the same if this ever happens to her.
Hi Mamelody, Nicely done, I would love to have seen his face. :)
To Misty Horizon2003 and all other women here who have been "groped"...
This groping thing is MUCH more than a drunk blooper and shouldn't be so easily dismissed...it is VERY serious and should be viewed as an indication of that particular man's "inclinations"...or "secret desires or activities" if you will...
First, please know that I am a VERY flirtatious male, about as flirtatious as a guy can get...and yet it is SO deeply ingrained in me how wrong it is to ever even THINK about touching a woman in this type of forward and uninvited manner...it just FEELS wrong; but I do know when it is invited or it's the right time...and that would be carried out by "leaning in for the kiss" rather than reaching for the "nipple twist" now wouldn't it? That right there shoes an utter disrespect towards women...
I have experienced every single degree of drunkenness there is, and never was so inclined to grope a woman like that...I'm no angel by any means..Mr.Hyde is alive and well, but it's limited to whiskey-induced nonsense about wanting to elope to Thailand with them to have babies or something stupid like that, but it's all in good fun and non-offensive, and more importantly said only after we have gotten to know each other a bit- if your older than 18 years old you should have a basic foundation of knowing what you can say and do and when. The fact that these men do not even have a tap-dancing cricket with a cane on their shoulder telling them that it's wrong makes them VERY dangerous.
First, don't ever make excuses for them by thinking or explaining that you may have done something that invited the grope...even when the turkey's done and your wearing a thin t-shirt with no bra after taking the trophy from a wet t-shirt contest...there is nothing you can do to make a NORMAL and HEALTHY man think anything ques other than you asking them to grope you outright, either verbally with a witness or notarized on company letterhead, or initiating the first grope yourself, is an invitation for them to grope you...IMO, if you were alone with him the outcome may have been much different...these are the types of men who have it in them to violently force themselves on women after their brief little stint of psychosis where they have convinced themselves that "oh she wants it, look how she's licking that ice cream cone" or whatever goes through those pea-brains; the degree to which they force themselves is usually dictated only by what they feel they can get away with according to their surroundings and whether someone might see them...NOT GOOD. For me, groping falls into the lower spectrum of the violent crimes category, and in many cases it should be viewed as Phase 1 of whats likely to happen to SOMEONE very soon...The sad thing is, these men are usually "testing the waters" and on the hunt for submissive prey...you were just one of the fish caught in the net he threw out...and like a shark, he was surprised by being lashed out at and likely moved on to an easier target.
Please be careful and take care of yourselves...and one another, by at the very least pointing attention to these men in case you left your shovel at home or the dirt behind the pub is too rocky for a shallow grave...these are mature men we are talking about who should know better, and they brought it on themselves and deserve whatever is coming to them. Don't get me wrong; the shallow grave was a joke and I don't condone murdering sprees..but just take care of business on a case by case basis...and remember, your definitely not the FIRST or the LAST woman he will grope...or even worse...and you very possibly have the power to stop a future violent crime...no pressure.
To all the wonderful and intelligent people here with your nice, meaningful posts who patiently suffered through my rambling...please accept my sincerest apologies if the way I expressed myself or my language offended anyone in any way, or if I darkened the mood...(except if you happen to be a loser who has to grope women to get any action)..but this topic just really struck a nerve with me...
While my wife and I were on shore-leave in Mumbai, India...she was groped in this manner right on the street by two local men right in front of me...and being a bit of a protective guy, who has been accused of having possible anger management issues...well let's just say the police came to stop me from finishing what I started...but it didn't make me feel any better and it didn't undo the damage that had been already been done...but if I was given another 5 minutes they would have NEVER touched another woman again. I often find myself thinking about what things they've done to other women since then...because I know they have...could I have stopped those? Should I have? But that's a part of India that no one will ever acknowledge and therefore will never change.
So how about those Red Sox?
What a wonderful and meaningful comment Rob. You sound like a great guy and your Wife is a very lucky woman to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time to type it out and make the excellent points you raised.
Thanks for taking the time to read my response...and even though many of these men might just be "losers" who do not know how to approach or interact with women..I can only hope that something I write will make them re-think their approach, and help them use their brains to express an interest in a woman rather than using their hands; the other benefit for these men is that they will keep themselves from being classified as "sexual predators" by someone like me who feels the need to take appropriate action so they cannot hurt others.
Another reason this topic makes me so upset, where these angry feelings originate from, is that when I was very young, I knew a man who I watched "grope" women in this manner...in public that is. Maybe he thought I was too young to understand what he was doing...but as a child I remembered anything that I did not understand until such a time as I could understand. Much later on, after it was much too late to help or protect anyone, I was able piece together the reason for this "groping"; this man was imprisoned on two separate occasions, that I know of, for sexual assault. I can only imagine that his "groping", which always seemed to be done in public places around other people, was much more persistent, and maybe even violent, when it was done in private. To me, a "groper" is a sexual predator who is on the prowl and needs to be stopped. Sadly, in most cases, the police cannot be involved until the crime, or crimes, have already been committed...so we need to be smart when trying to evaluate the degree of danger these men pose and take appropriate steps to TRY make sure the crime doesn't happen...but all we can do is try; unfortunately these types of men will always exist, and crimes will still happen- but if each one of us remains alert and vigilant, and understands the power we have to stop these types of crimes by NOT turning the other way when we see people like this, and staying in this persons business when possible and trying prevent opportunities they are trying to establish, like meetings alone, etc...well we can at the very least maybe minimize their occurrence...which may sound small on paper, or in the big scheme of things...but will not by any means seem small to a person that we are able to help...even if they don't know it.
Cheers Rob, your repeated visit and intelligent comment is very much appreciated. Your feelings voiced do make perfect sense and I appreciate them greatly.
I would push for an amputation of the hand law. People without respect are disposable - we should rid of them.
I would push for an amputation of the hand law. People without respect are disposable - we should rid of them.
Well its certainly an idea with possibilities The big J, but doubt it would ever be passed.
Hate to say it, but I'm afraid groping may be on the rise. I was shocked to read an article a friend sent me who lives in Japan about Chikans or men who grope women on Japanese trains. The women are fairly passive there - I'm sure you, Misty, would not put up with such things.
Anyhow, I guess the new thing is video taping the groping and selling it on internet. This article said it's spreading to other countries - such a strange age we live in...
How bizarre, and so very strange Jason. Hard to believe anyone would want to put it the Internet too, as this would be as good as advertising proof of the crime along with the picture of you committing it! A very strange age we live in, you are right :)
Well I wouldn't call Marilyn Monroe 'a notorious Hollywood whore' by any stretch of the imagination I have to say. Nor do I recall the 'May I suck you off Mr President' public fundraiser incident (perhaps you can link to an article that references it here). 'Breasts and Buttocks fully exposed' sounds a major exaggeration to me, and I am certain this is untrue.
'She makes indecent and inappropriate sexual cooing sounds while giving a musical blow job.', how do you determine this? It sounds like an opinion to me.
'She almost had a Cuban missile in her mouth while performing national security cock sucking. There can be no excuse for Marilyn Monroe. Her public blowing of the president of the United States was a greater threat to these United States than the U.S. government secrets she betrayed to her Jewish Communist psychiatrist and physician, Ralph Greenson and Hyman Engelbert. Marilyn Monroe is a registered sex harasser with a hammer and sickle behind her'
Can you offer evidence of this, footage, sources etc, or is this just an opinion also?
I have to also ask, why any of this is relevant to an article where I mention being groped whilst in a pub, in ordinary clothes, wearing no make-up and therefore not giving out any signals that could be misinterpreted?
I know the clip john, very well in fact, but no-where does she say “May I Suck You Off, Mr. President?" In front of a shocked national audience. Not sure what you were watching!
Hmmm, well this is not a political article John, so whether or not she had Communist connections is irrelevant to this article. In other words the topic is being sidetracked, and things are also being said that are inaccurate to a point I am considering deleting those comments, as well as my responses to said comments. The responses I expect to an article like this should really be comments based on others personal experiences that are similar, or comments that voice opinions on men/women that grope women/men who are not encouraging such actions in any way, i.e. dressed provocatively, talking provocatively etc.
Trouble is John, I have some great friends on here who are excellent at writing 'parody' but they do it in a way that IS funny, not in a way they 'think' is funny. Check out Christoph Reilly and Shadesbreath on Hubpages if you have any doubts, (really they are top class).
There is also a big difference between flirting (strongly) and actual groping (as I described in my situation).
No, I did not ask for proof of her Communist connections, I wanted proof of:
"Breasts and Buttocks fully exposed'
'She makes indecent and inappropriate sexual cooing sounds while giving a musical blow job.'
'She almost had a Cuban missile in her mouth while performing national security cock sucking. There can be no excuse for Marilyn Monroe. Her public blowing of the president of the United States. Marilyn Monroe is a registered sex harasser with a hammer and sickle behind her"
Not interested in the politics, only the allegations of events.
Correction, actually all of this is irrelevant, see my previous comment as to why.
PS. You might want to note that I actually didn't act like a 'Whore' in any way to cause this event to happen, but it still did, when I should have been treated with respect!
I'm glad you have ended your disjointed tirade, John Thames. You seem to be saying members of both sexes flaunt their sexuality and then complain about the consequences of said flaunting. This is simply what humans are genetically wired to do since the beginning of time. To attract a mate. While in todays world we may not still be seeking a mate, it doesn't matter, we are compelled to engage in the preening anyway. As for dangling testicles, I cannot say, but you were either a victim who didn't know a good thing when it grabbed him--so to speak--or are pissed that it didn't happen to you. Just because women (or men, I guess) want to look sexy and appealing, they still want to choose who they will bestow their charms upon. Besides, Misty didn't say anything about being dressed provocatively herself. Anyway, this is hardly the place for your...uh...whatever the hell it was. Take it up with your God.
John, you appear to be out of your depth here, failing to address such basic points as to my experience, and expecting to work on a generalization and your own misogynist instincts. LOL big time re-'Moo brain' comment. That term means nothing here and you really are batting out of your league if it is meant to be an insult to an educated woman (sad).
Regarding Marylin, well, clearly you drew conclusions, rightly or wrongly, but as a man I am guessing Kennedy didn't need too much persuading, and that is assuming no prior interaction had taken place (which it probably had). By the way, I don't need glasses to see a video and personal insults only dilute your standpoint for obvious reasons.
Hey Christoph, so great to see you here, someone who really can do 'parody' and gets that John has issues!
My option is that he was either groped himself, or is a groper and needs to justify it in his own mind! As for his comments on Marilyn's dress code, well, if a woman wears a bikini she wears less, but does not invite groping.
Most relevant as you said, I was not dressed in any way provocatively, but still got groped, a point John conveniently ignores in favour of insulting me and other women.
LOL 'opaque and see through dress' complete contradictions of each other!!
PS. I take it you are single, and from your recent posts (in all sincerity), are most likely to either stay single or not hold down your current relationship. This is not intended as an insult, but is based on my lifetime's experience and is a good tip for you to look at your life and attitudes and reassess them in order to give yourself a positive future.
I have had enough of you now John, you are rude, obnoxious, sexist and clearly a raving misogynist, and quite possible slightly mad. I have deleted all your comments, not least because they are littered with offensive swear words and profanities and are essentially irrelevant to the topic of this article. I should have realised you were a troll immediately.
I was a teenager once. I learned LONG AGO, that it is unacceptable offensive behavior and ITS JUVENILE. It's called "growing up and getting a clue." As a father of a teen daughter, I am horrified! I did not have a baby girl so someone's pervert baby boy can stick their pervert hands where they do not belong.
Now, in a serious committed adult relationship, I think the behavior has its place, if discreet and well received.
It can be a form of romantic communication. I think such expressions are acceptable and can be important to one's self confidence and confidence of the commitment in the relationship.
Casual friends, associates, co-workers, etc, - the Perv-a-trator has some serious maturity and boundary issues.
Some women grope too btw, its just not as predominate - though I would wager predominately well received!
What woman can say she groped a man and received a black eye or a good slap? Not many, unless it came from his wife or girlfriend. LOL. Good hub Misty. Up and awesome.
P.S. I am sure you did the right thing, but, I wish you hadn't deleted the sexist comments, I would have liked to see how the bloke hung himself publicly. It's funny how some people can hang themselves and be completely oblivious to the noose around their neck. Reminds me of newspaper pots! (red-faced-chuckle). - Harlan
LOL Harlan, you would have come to the same conclusion I did over the nutty sexist comments. Seriously, the guy was a 'few sandwiches short of a picnic', quite clearly mentally unbalanced.
Cheers for your thoughts and comment :)
Wow Lone Ranger, I accidentally deleted your comment but I reckon this response pretty much quotes all you said anyway. I can't retrieve your original comment although I have tried because it is so wrong that I actually wanted to allow it LOL.
I hate to say this, but you couldn't have misjudged me and the whole situation more if you had tried. I will attempt to cover what you said point by point (which might take a while but needs doing).
1) I don't frequent many pubs, in fact usually I only go the same one. The first time an incident like this happened in a pub was six years ago, the second time was in my local pub and that was about 2 years ago. Am I supposed to stay indoors and never go out?
2) I wasn't wearing a bra because if you are not 'big breasted' then it isn't always essential to wear a bra, (they stay up on their own). A bra is not like knickers, it actually serves a supportive purpose, so if on occasion I choose to pop out with my Hubby for a quick drink on the spur of the moment, dressed casually and not wearing a bra, I don't expect it to attract a grope from an elderly man at least 30 years my senior.
3) 'Wrong places, wrong crowd, quite often',
I don't think twice in 6 years indicates that. I should also add this was not strictly speaking 'a pub' but a local 'hotel bar', therefore hardly likely to attract a bad crowd.
4) 'Could it be that you are trying to turn-on your husband, make him jealous, or make yourself feel sexy, at least on a subconscious level if not on a conscious level?'
Another What!!!! I have no problem turning on my Husband, actually quite the opposite lol. I have no need to make him jealous, we have a close and loving relationship. If I wanted to 'make myself feel sexy trust me, it would not involve a man who is well into his 70's in my fantasy.
5) 'Someone who is victimized as often as you claim to be, I should think, would change their modus operendi in hopes of avoiding the unpleasant stimuli in the future. You, however, do not seem to be so inclined.'
Hang on a minute here. I went for a quiet drink in a local hotel bar with a handful of nice people in there. What in the hell did I do wrong that I need to change. I was not dressed provocatively, I had no make up on and I was out with my Husband. What am I meant to change? The previous occasion this kind of incident happened I was out with my boyfriend (who is now my Husband), and I was having a normal conversation with a person we both knew well in a pub. This person was drunk and had no right to do what he did. I did not provoke this in any way so why do I have to change my ways?
6)'As I understand it, you are a very thirsty girl who loves hanging around the guys at bars, knowing full-well that alcohol decreases natural inhibitions and pubs are known for attracting far more social miscreants and social deviants than saints.'
Firstly, no I am not a 'thirsty girl' and a night out for me consists of me having about 3 pints maximum over about four hours. I prefer male company yes, but not in the way you are implying. I am used to being accepted as one of the guys and having a laugh and a joke. I might also add that here in Guernsey bars are not like the US, they are nice quiet places most of the time, and guns and knives would be unheard of. This island has only ever had about five murders in about 40 years, and they were foreign workers murdering each other, not locals. The places I go do not attract the types of people you describe for 99% of the time.
7) 'Knowing this, what do you do? You dress up and head for your favorite dive and whether or not you wear a bra is left to the roll of the dice or how naughty you are feeling at the moment! And apparently you feel you are pretty hot, because you mentioned that the old fella was "batting way out of his league". Hmmm.'
Did you read the article at all? I clearly stated I was not dressed up at all and had popped down to our local bar for a drink with my Husband. I had no make-up on, casual clothes and chose not to bother with a bra, not because I was feeling 'naughty' (God, I am 42, not 18), but because I don't need one unless I am wearing a figure hugging dress and don't want them to look too 'saggy'. He was batting out of his league because he is over 30 years older than me and not an attractive man at all. Of course he was out of his league, he was going for a woman many years his junior who was already married, not because I am especially hot.
8)"I firmly believe you are going to get your husband killed one day, because bad judgment seems to follow you like the moon follows the sun. Of course, you may end up getting the old guy killed by your husband, and your husband thrown in the slammer for murder. Then again, you may send out the wrong message to the wrong guy and get yourself planted six feet under. There is no up-side here!"
Another barmy statement, please give me examples of my 'bad judgement'. Oh right, so I chose not to wear a bra I don't need, have a quiet drink out with my Husband whilst dressed in majorly unprovocative clothing, and yet it is my fault I got groped when he went to the toilet!! My Husband is not someone who could murder a fly,nor is he a jealous type (and I wouldn't want him to be). I do not send out any 'wrong messages' to guys. If having a conversation with someone I trusted (both times) and with no effort on my part to attract them results in them groping me, how is this my doing?
9) "You have also stated that this old bugger who touched your nipple has something you want (land), so I guess if there is something you really want, you are willing to put up with it. I think other men may have already come to this conclusion, but the only question remains if you are also willing to "put out", and for this reason they are trying to test the waters, so to speak."
Now I am beginning to think you are quite mad. I had been offered the land by this guy and his wife before any of this happened. I had made plans accordingly and therefore was horrified when this incident happened. I didn't want to cancel my plans, but felt it might be less of a risk if it was on the land where his wife lived. Ultimately I was not comfortable with the idea enough and we made excuses and did not take up the offer of the land. Of course I would not have 'put up with it' to have the land. I would have to have been confident it would never happen again to take it on. As I stated, I could not feel this level of confidence so did not take on the land. Your comment about my 'putting out' is disgusting at best. As if I would ever stoop so low, unlike this man I have moral standards, and why would he or you think any differently. I come from a good background and my family are very ethical and moral. Please don't judge me based on the standards of people you clearly socialise with.
10)"If you were my wife, and you were still considering the gardening option after what happened at the pub, you would be in serious hot water with me and what does that say about your convictions and morality? It tells me that you put gardening above good judgement and ahead of your marriage, which you should be guarding at all costs.
You, my dear, are putting yourself in harms way, your husband in harms way and the old fart in harms way as well, but I think you already know that...don't you? My, oh my, how women love drama and sexcapades! I wonder how many lustful suitors and jealous husbands have died as a result."
Again, What on earth are you on? My Husband and I are a team and we discussed what had happened like adults, including the gardening option. This is how we came to the conclusion it was not a good idea. This did not put either my Husband or the 'Old Fart' in harms way, nor would it ever have done. At worst my Husband would have spoken to him or his wife about the incident, (we are actually quite civilised here you know).
11)"Lastly, I do believe, Misty, that you are putting out the vibes and placing the bull's eye on your own forehead, if you know it or not. Perhaps you are going through a form of mid-life crisis and want validation that you are still attractive. I'm not sure, but it sure seems
For some reason the end of my last post to you vanished LR. Essentially I pointed out that I have no need to prove I am still attractive. According to you I am apparently not allowed to dress in casual clothes and go to a quiet local hotel bar, with my Husband, whilst wearing no make-up and not wearing a bra I don't need. If a sober, elderly acquaintance to both of us then chooses to grab and twiddle my nipple whilst my Husband is in the toilet it must therefore be my fault and I need some kind of validation I am still attractive!!! Are you reading this the way I am?? This assumption is true madness by anyone's standards!
I might add that I do not frequent places full of drunken people, and the places I go generally attract decent people who are well behaved. I have also been playing pool for a team for over a year now and I am the only woman in our team. Never ever have any of my team or people we have played against, attempted to touch me inappropriately or make inappropriate suggestions even though I DO make an effort to look nice on pool night as a matter of self respect. To my mind this proves I am not the problem here as we play at many different venues. This groping comes down to matter of having little respect for the opposite sex or theirs or your own, marital status... period!
Dear Misty:
I cannot help but notice that my "alternate response" got you to think and that was my sole intention. I'm sorry it was deleted because I think there were some really good points that you did not touch upon in your rebuttal. :0)
You see, Misty, people often see themselves through a different set of lenses than the rest of the world and this was one of my points to you. You see yourself one way and they see you another way. I just wanted you to take another look at it, from a unique perspective.
Now, I don't know how often you go pubbing and perhaps I assumed too much based upon the title of your essay and perhaps you may have even embellished the account somewhat, I don't know, but the things I said about human nature is true nonetheless.
I am encouraged that you decided not to go ahead with the land arrangement and I am thankful that you found yourself a good man. I still don't like the sound of a married woman hanging around men in a pub shooting pool and I am still baffled why you were still considering going ahead with the land deal even after this debacle occurred.
As I said in my deleted post, I just don't want you or anyone else to get hurt and my main goal was to get you to look at yourself to see if there is something you may be doing that is causal.
Was my response alarmist? Yes, perhaps, but I intended it that way; you already had 50 people saying the same things, so, as I said in my deleted post to you that I would offer you an alternate opinion, and so I did.
If every person in the world sees things the same way you do and thinks the same way you do, then most of them are no longer needed. Yet, there is much evil in this world, even as we speak, so perhaps people aren't seeing things through the proper lenses.
I truly hope you did not delete my post intentionally, but it sure seems fishy because you did not seem to have this problem with anyone else, but only the guy who offered a different opinion and asked you to take a good look inward to try and help explain these unwanted outward expressions from men.
Please don't be angry with me. I think you will find that I am a stable-minded, level-headed, straight-shooting son of a gun, who has a heart of gold. Be well, Misty. - L.R.
L.R. Firstly if I had intentionally deleted your comment believe me I would have said so. My initial reaction was that it should be deleted as it goes, not least because I found it totally insulting and offensive. I then decided I would allow the comment in order to respond to it properly and make sure the facts were put straight. Unfortunately when I posted my reply, your original comment vanished and I could not get it back again (believe me I tried).
Secondly if you want to post the missing points again I will happily address them. My conscience is totally clear on this matter as I KNOW I did nothing to provoke or encourage this person to grope at me.
The account I wrote here is exactly as it happened and is not embellished in any way.
The land deal was a part of my plan for a full time income, not just a hobby, so yes, I did briefly consider going ahead because land is at a premium here, and this was free, close to where we live and the right size. I also hoped he would not be a problem with the risk his wife could catch him trying it on if he did. Ultimately it felt 'wrong' and my Husband and I discussed this at length before deciding I would scrap the plans for the land.
As for 'shooting pool' My first Husband (sadly now deceased) and I used to go and play pool a lot, we played so often that we were both very good at it, and ultimately I joined an all girl team and we played in the leagues against teams that were predominantly male. Our boyfriends and Husbands trusted us, and it was never an issue. My current Husband also trusts me, and I am not the only woman who plays in the leagues, even though I am the only one in our team. This is just a night out with friends who have a laugh, a bit of banter and a few games of pool. I really can't see what the big deal is about this.
I do find it patronising to be told that you felt a need to get me to look at myself to see if I was the cause of the problem. I think it is pretty clear if you read the article that I must have already done this by the way I describe the fact I was not wearing make-up, was wearing casual clothes etc (in other words I looked at the situation to assess if I caused it). I would know if I had been the cause of this in any way and I certainly wouldn't be writing about it if I knew in any way I was responsible for the incident.
I am sure you do have a heart of gold, and perhaps if you knew me you would see I do too. I can only suggest that in order to get to know the kind of person I am better you might want to read some of my other articles and realise just how seriously you have misjudged me. I suggest you start with these:
http://mistyhorizon2003.hubpages.com/hub/Bowel-Can
http://mistyhorizon2003.hubpages.com/hub/Do-You-Re
http://mistyhorizon2003.hubpages.com/hub/My-Belove
http://mistyhorizon2003.hubpages.com/hub/How-do-yo
Dear Mindy:
I am sorry to hear about your first husband's death, but I am encouraged that you were able to find another good man to help ease the pain and add joy to your life - I am sure your first husband would have wanted it this way.
Please know that I have not judged you, Misty, although it may seem like I did. Remember, I was only giving you an alternate opinion..."If for no other reason than just to be different." I did not say that I believed in the opinion that I rendered, but I got what I was looking for through the ensuing discussion, because: (1) I wanted to help you figure this thing out, and (2) I was interested.
Now, if you tell me that A and B are not valid points, that's no sweat off my back...I don't have a vested interest in this issue other than to get you to explore other possibilities regardless how absurd they may sound to you.
Then again, if you found something useful, then my work here is done and I can die happy. And, please understand that I never said or implied that I thought you were the cause, but were perhaps aiding it along a little. I didn't know, but I knew you did and I wanted you to explore that possibility, not for my benefit, but for your's.
Now, if your picture is an accurate indication of your inner essence, then I would have to conclude that you are a real sweetheart and one that possesses a heart of gold; if this is indeed the case, then your husband is a lucky man.
If I were a betting man, I would have to say that most men probably find you grope-worthy but would not dare act upon this primal-urge without the aid of alcohol. Hence, the chances of being groped in an atmosphere with alcohol and men increases the chances of another incident exponentially.
At any rate, let us put this issue to rest and know that I was not intending to insult you or patronize you, nor did I endorse my own opinion, but only registered the response for your benefit. The bottom line is that I don't know enough about you or your life to make a judgment, so I had to use projection to fill in the blanks. Thanks for being a good sport! Peace be with you. - L.R.
Thanks L.R. Okay, let's forget about it now as I have no desire to have conflict over any such issue, and respect the fact you are saying this is not your actual opinion, just an alternative suggestion. I am hoping that as I can see from comments on other articles that you have now read some of my work you can see the kind of person I am.
I would also like to say that based on your wonderful and educational comment on my latest hub on the need to be in love with a partner or not, and the level of articulate interaction you have shown, that you should consider writing on Hubpages yourself. I am sure you would do very well. (If you do please can you sign up under my referral link as I could do with the extra money LOL. You can find the link on my Profile Page in the first block of text, it says 'join here'). You can earn some money from your writing and your knowledge this way, although it takes a while. I started writing here just because I loved writing, the money was a bonus.
Take Care
Cindy
Thanks, Cindy!
I had hoped to start my own Hub page perhaps at the tail end of December, but we'll have to see how things play out.
You know, I would love to sign-up under your name, but I have two other people who have been standing in-line for 6 months already, hoping for the same consideration. I cannot say for sure how it will turn out, but I definately do not want to hurt either of them, so having a "plan C" may afford me a potential solution.
Best wishes to you and yours. - L.R.
P.S. Sorry for hailing you as "Mindy" in the previous post. My sons and I had just completed season one of "Mork and Mindy" and I think that little cutie was still on my mind. :0)
Hi L.R. No worries. You really should look at doing some writing here soon though, you are wasting a good talent otherwise. Also don't forget loads of writers here have several accounts, so you can sign up under different people. It was too late for me to really split my stuff up when they brought in subdomains (I already had too many hubs on different topics under my existing account), but ideally they reckon you should have a different account/subdomain for each 'niche' you write about as this raises your status within Google's eyes and it can judge your subdomain more easily. Hard to explain, but worth remembering when you finally get started.
No worries re- calling me Mindy (I have been called worse and have lost count of the amount of times my name has been spelled Sindy by other people).
Catch up soon and take care
:)
Dear Cindy:
I have heard "Hubbers" talk about making money writing essays, but didn't think anything of it. I just do it for a release and to be helpful. Having said that, the Lone Ranger lives in a material world and would not reject any monetary numerations that may come my way.
How, praytell, does this system work? How can a "Hubber" make money talking about Dopamine or psychopathic relationships? I just don't get it.
If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to hear more.
Better scoot - L.R.
Hi L.R. It is largely to do with the adverts that appear on your pages/hubs, and depending on if you use Hubpage Ad programme or Adsense alone (either way you need to sign up with Adsense which is free), you either earn through the amount of times those adverts get seen (impressions), or the amount of times readers find the adverts of enough interest to click on them, (although this has to be natural and not through getting friends or family or yourself to click on Ads). Essentially the more popular your topic is, the more times the hub is likely to be seen by people searching Google for the subject matter, and therefore the more money you will make. You will find a lot more information about this if you read my hub called 'How can I make money from writing online?'. The link to the hub is:
http://mistyhorizon2003.hubpages.com/hub/How-can-I
This Hubpages link is also useful and explains how you make money on Hubpages:
http://hubpages.com/faq/#royalties
If you have any more questions after that then let me know. You can always contact me privately if you prefer by using the contact envelope icon just below my profile picture on any of my hubs or on my profile page.
Catch up after
Cindy
PS L.R. This overall link to Hubpages FAQ is helpful. If you scroll down to the second section it is entirely about how you can make money on Hubpages.
Thanks, Cindy, I'll definately look into it! :0)
Are u even hot?
That really isn't the point Ryan as I think you know.
Well, Ryan, my boy, they say "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder", so I would dare say that the men who associate with Cindy, know her best, and "reach out" to her, think she is definately grope-worthy!
Who knows, perhaps Cindy is on Euro Poll's "100 Women You Must Grope Before You Die" list? Besides, the Lone Ranger is an authority on beauty and from where I am sitting, Cindy looks like a real cutie to me!!!
Ahhh you are a sweetie L.R. thanks so much for the lovely compliments :)
You did good in my book. I'm glad the man you slapped didn't retaliate. Lol, when a woman grabs more ass or crotch, I usually take it as an invitation and if i'm feeling up to it, i'll accept and give her the business. Looking at all the comments saying slap him or do more, I can't help but laugh. Maybe next time a woman grabs my sack, and i'm not in the mood, I'll slap the shit out of her. Wonder if i'll get the same reaction you got from the spectators. Lol I doubt it, probably have to shoot my way out the crowd of heroes. I still say good job though, I just like to throw a what if or two out there every now and then
Tatjana-Mihaela 2 years ago
He, he, Cindy, I would avoid that man, or directly explain him that things cannot work that way.
Some men think that woman wants sex with them if she just tell them "hello". He is obviously such type. You told him much more then "hello".